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March 26, 2006Zeyad's GloomPlease don’t ask me whether I believe Iraq is on the verge of civil war yet or not. I have never experienced a civil war before, only regular ones. All I see is that both sides are engaged in tit-for-tat lynchings and summary executions. I see governmental forces openly taking sides or stepping aside. I see an occupation force that is clueless about what is going on in the country. I see politicians that distrust each other and continue to flame the situation for their own personal interests. I see Islamic clerics delivering fiery sermons against each other, then smile and hug each other at the end of the day in staged PR stunts. I see the country breaking into pieces. The frontlines between different districts of Baghdad are already clearly demarked and ready for the battle. I was stopped in my own neighbourhood yesterday by a watch team and questioned where I live and what I was doing in that area. I see other people curiously staring in each other’s faces on the street. I see hundreds of people disappearing in the middle of the night and their corpses surfacing next day with electric drill holes in them. I see people blown up to smithereens because a brainwashed virgin seeker targeted a crowded market or café. I see all that and more. And don't miss Zeyad's so appropriate dig at Ralph Peters: "Perhaps Ralph Peters will happen to drive by with an American army patrol and enjoy the scene of children cheering for the troops, while wondering where his civil war is, dude." Funny, its been a little while since, say, Glenn Reynolds has linked to a Zeyad dispatch (maybe I'm being unfair to Glenn, he linked back at the beginning of March, and why the hell should he have some pre-ordained 'acceptable' number of Zeyad-links? But still....). Regardless, however, perhaps talk of possible civil war and corpses with electric drill holes embedded in them isn't appropriately conducive to the desired party-like, echo-chamber conditions whereby all the varied difficulties in Mesopotamia can be blamed on the dastardly MSM or odious Sunnis. We Americans like happy endings, after all, and if we're not going to get one--let's blame the Sunnis and/or media, no? But never ourselves, or God forbid, the Administration. It's too painful, likely not good for traffic stats either, and puts the lie to the desired Hollywood type ending. UPDATE: To Glenn's credit, he links to the Zeyad post in question here. Which does make my post above seem more a cheap shot...
Comments
These admins are getting weirder and weirder. There was some serious nonsense out of Condoleezza this morning on both MTP and Late Edition. I blogged with transcripts and excerpts. Basically, she said that Saddam was part of an ideology that contributed to 9/11 even if he did not knowingly do so. He represented the Old Middle East and we needed a New one. Of course, this "new" one looks like a hyper version of the old one. Posted by: Chris at March 26, 2006 11:09 PM | Permalink to this comment
What a smarmy cheapshot. You admit that Reynolds linked to a Zeyad post about the civil conflict, but apparently he's just an unreflective imbecile obsessed with happy endings and traffic stats (?!) because he hasn't linked more. While you, being brave and cleareyed, have two links to Zeyad. Today. Your rhetorical strategy these days seems to be: 1. America must keep up its current presence in Iraq indefinitely. 2. Anybody who offers reasons why keeping troops there might lead to a good result is a moron sucking up the administration. The emphasis is increasingly on #2, which would seem to put #1 under unsustainable stress. The ratio of vitriol to actual analysis is also getting out of hand. Apparently Charles Krauthammer is the greatest threat the republic faces today. So goodbye BD. No doubt I'm just a shill for ChimpBush you wouldn't want around anyway. Posted by: rd at March 27, 2006 05:44 PM | Permalink to this comment
The Gates of Hell have indeed opened in Iraq. The destruction of the Golden Dome of the Shiate Mosque in Samaria on Feb. 22nd was the starter pistol for the Shiate Death Squads recruited by the Shia controlled Interior Ministry to go into full-scale slaughter of whatever Sunni men of military age they could find. Supposdly this was in retalilation for the destruction of the Golden Dome. In reality this was a progrom against any Sunnis living in Shiate neighborhoods or in mixed Sunni/Shiate neighborhoods in the Baghdad area. Since then there has been an increasing deadly spiral of suicide bombers from the Sunni extremists usually targeting Shias and Shia death squad retailation murders of Sunnis, several groups of whom are found each morning. In the month since Feb 22nd, more then 2,000 Iraqis have been murdered in the vicious cycles of revenge answering revenge. Most of those killed in these atrocities are not members of the terrorist groups involved. The victims are defenseless civilans, who are killed to radicalize the moderates who might stand against both Sunni & Shiate Terrorists. For a stunning story in Sunday's New York Times, go to http://docstrangelove.com/2006/03/26/in-the-name-of-allah-most-gracious-most-merciful/#respond . Go down to the third paragraph, first line and click on "glimpse into hell" and you should go directly to the Times Story. It grimly describes some of the mostly Sunni victims of the mostly Shiate Death Squads. Most heartbreaking is that of Mohannad al-Azawi, a 27yr old Sunni pet store owner in a rough mostly Shiate neighborhood of Baghdad, whose sweet innocent nature may have doomed him. Two chilling items. There is a group of photos of Mohanned, one showing him alive and smiling, and surronding it are photos of his dead, tortured body, looking something like the terrorist video of Daniel Pearl. Mohanned's brother, Hassan says he carries the autopsy photos of his brother, along with a pistol saying, "I cannot live without vengeance". This is the reality of Iraq today as the cycle of atrocity answered by more atrocity engulfs Baghdad and Central Iraq. God Help Iraq and all decent Iraqis. Posted by: David All at March 27, 2006 10:48 PM | Permalink to this comment
But Greg, the Left has been blaming Bush since 9/11 -- so how can you honestly say that we blame the Sunnis or the media but "never ourselves"? Oh, right; you blame Bush; or at least his Administration. I blame Bush for mistakes -- like local elections too late, Bremer unwilling to give power/money to Iraqis; no National Oil Trust fund to give oil income vouchers to all voting citizens, etc. Mistakes, in my opinion -- but not blame for the killing. Blame for the murders should be on those who did the killing -- the murderers. But let's recall that Sunnis who knew of terrorists for 3 years but did not stop them, are now suffering the payback from their own enabling of terror, rather than acceptance of Bush liberation. I doubt that the mass killing will stop until after the Sunnis admit defeat, and stop supporting/ hiding/ protecting terrorists. If that's civil war (and I think 1000 deaths a week qualifies), it's time to look at how it's going to end. Majority rule. With more Sunni bloodshed until Sunnis stop killing Shiite. Posted by: Tom Grey at March 28, 2006 02:20 PM | Permalink to this comment
Tom Grey, "rather than acceptance of Bush liberation." Yes, except Bush's liberation or die! And these are the facsists hoping to spread liberty and freedom? No wonder America lost Gulf War 2. Posted by: Bill Sanders at March 28, 2006 05:34 PM | Permalink to this comment
It looks like Greg shamed Instahack into linking Zeyad again. I guess even the great Glenn had trouble pretending that everything was going just hunky dory in Iraq.
I doubt that the mass killing will stop until after the Sunnis admit defeat, and stop supporting/ hiding/ protecting terrorists. If that's civil war (and I think 1000 deaths a week qualifies), it's time to look at how it's going to end. Majority rule. With more Sunni bloodshed until Sunnis stop killing Shiite. Ah. We could have used that argument in Xugoslavia. "Majority rule. Just let the killing continue until the majority wins." We can use it now in Darfur. "Once the majority wins the genocide will stop. Just leave them to it." Hell, it's good generally. "The nazi genocide was done by the party that had majority support, so it wasn't really a war crime at all, now was it?" Rationalization. So easy, when you know how.
And how is yugoslavia some 10 plus years later.... still has american and UN/Nato troops, the factions still hate eachother, elections, when run, don't accomplish much. Sounds like Iraq. Sounds like we might be in for the long haul. Lets face it, the future is uncertain, and colonizat--err i mean 'nation-building' isn't easy. Posted by: Pharaoh at March 29, 2006 03:25 AM | Permalink to this comment
"Ah. We could have used that argument in Xugoslavia. "Majority rule. Just let the killing continue until the majority wins." We can use it now in Darfur. "Once the majority wins the genocide will stop. Just leave them to it." Hell, it's good generally. "The nazi genocide was done by the party that had majority support, so it wasn't really a war crime at all, now was it?" Rationalization. So easy, when you know how." Were the Bosnian muslims the ruling group in old Yugoslavia, who commited genocide against the others? Were the Darfuris the former ruling group in Sudan?
What the hell? In Xugoslavia they had hundreds of years of resentments. Likewise iraq. In both cases they had a strongman who suppressed the problems, and the resentments flared up when he was gone. You can add things to Tom Grey's argument until at some point you've made a distinction between the cases, but that distinction isn't there yet.
the shia reaction isnt about hundreds of years of resentments. Its a reaction to the provocations of the last few years. Not only the Saddam years, but continued sunni support for a campaign of terror and genocide against Shia since Saddam fell. As for Yugoslavia, the Serbs ARE the majority in Serbia, and are entitled to govern there. The issue in the Yugo civil war was independence for Bosnia and Kosovo. Do the Sunnis of Iraq want independence? If so, I havent heard that. If theyre going to stay in Iraq, as they seem to want to do, they ARE going to have accept majority rule at some point. You also havent responded on Darfur - did the Sudanese arabs have hundreds of years of resentments against the Darfuris? I havent heard that. I also dont know when Jews as a group ruled Germany. Perhaps you can enlighten me. Posted by: liberalhawk at March 29, 2006 08:12 PM | Permalink to this comment
Liberalhawk, I don't understand why you keep trying to confuse the issue. Well, actually I guess I do. Tom Grey didn't say anything about sunnis ruling iraq in the old days. That's something you threw in fresh. And you don't seem to get it about Xugoslavia. Sure, the Serbs were the majority and by one way of thinking that meant they shoujd have made all the decisions, but most of the fighting was about ethnic cleansing. Tom's argument applies just as well to the various other killing fields. The minority just has to accept mass killing until they surrender and accept that the majority gets to make the decisions. You're welcome to create as many new arguments as you like, but they are only your new versions and don't affect my criticism of his version. Apart from the moral stance, I tend to agree with Tom about what's likely to happen. Sure, they'll keep fighting until they either get an effective partition of the country, or they get a clear winner and clear losers. Our troops can't do much to change that, except to arm one side and try to interdict arms from reaching other sides, and do airstrikes against places where people we don't like are winning, and a few things like that.
I get it. There is a civil war in Iraq which will die out (some pun, eh?) when the Americans leave. And if we leave it will no longer be our fault. Just as the killing and boat people post April '75 had nothing to do with America abandoning the South Vietnamese. Well at least we got a lot of good restruants out of that. Any one know if Iraqi food has anything to reccomend it? Posted by: M. Simon at March 30, 2006 02:26 AM | Permalink to this comment
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