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September 08, 2006Has Waterboarding Been Banned?First, from the NYT: Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions bars, among other things, “outrages upon personal dignity, in particular, humiliating and degrading treatment.” The administration says that language is too vague. Could we now be arguing between tactics that fall somewhere between Article 3 and the McCain Amendment? I'm probably one of the last persons to believe anything John Yoo has to say on this matter, but I note that Ron Suskind in a recent interview states: "Death threats, waterboarding, profound deprivation issues, heat, cold, denial of medical attention -- those are now abandoned." While my strong preference is for complete fidelity to Geneva's Article 3 requirements, pursuant to best Army Field Manual practice and norms, it is at least progress, if true, that tactics such as death threats, waterboarding and induced hypothermia are being abandoned. Progress, mind you, not an all clear, not by a long shot. Not least as we are not being told what tactics are still being employed, as far as I know, and they could well constitute torture (particularly given the Administration's duplicitious and untrustworthy track record on the entire gamut of detainee treatment and interrogation tactics issues over the past half decade). In addition, we have not seen any of the internal Administration legal memoranda making the case why tactics to be used going forward do not rise to torture as per the Torture Convention. Finally, don't miss this snippet from the NYT piece: A senior intelligence official said that the new legislation, if enacted, would make it clear that the techniques used by the C.I.A. on senior Qaeda members who had been held abroad in secret sites would not be prohibited and that interrogators who engaged in those practices both in the past and in the future would not face prosecution. Bottom line, at least as of tonight: I've been burned too many times to believe that this Administration has truly banned any and all tactics that constitute torture on enemy combatants in CIA custody, and so I'm not convinced yet we are are just dealing with penumbras as between Article 3 and the McCain Amendment, as Yoo would spin it. On top of this, I am a firm believer that strict compliance with best practices under Article 3 is the best way forward regardless, and even if I could be persuaded otherwise, I'm not at all comfortable with what this Administration would view as not 'shocking the conscience' regardless-- and thus permissible under their reading of the McCain Amendment requirements--certainly given previous Administration lawyering on such matters that can only be described as unprofessional and irresponsible in the extreme. Note this is not about knee-jerk detainee rights absolutism, as some would have it. Ensuring torture is totally banned under American law is a touchstone issue that defines our very civilization, to include its continued embrace of Englightenment values, a belief in progress in the face of adversity, and ensuring that our most odious enemies are not successful in having us sully our human rights leadership, one so hard earned through the Cold War. In short, we must all remain seized and vigilant with regard to the great import of regaining our moral leadership on the world stage with respect to these foundational issues. MORE: Marty Lederman has a related post here. Posted by Gregory at September 8, 2006 05:51 AM Comments
The only thing I take issue with here is your statement about "our human rights leadership, one so hard earned through the Cold War". We engaged in actions during the Cold War that were overtly hostile to human rights. Consider, just for starters, the overthrow of democratically elected regimes in Iran, Guatamala and Chile; our support for "death squads" in El Salvador; and the conduct of the Vietnam war. Not to say that confronting Stalinism and Maoism was not necessary, but some of our methods then were surely as flawed as the "methods" being used in confronting terrorism are today. Posted by: Clay Fink at September 10, 2006 12:51 AM | Permalink to this comment![]() Once thing I learned in Kindergarten that applies to many things in adult life: How to fairly share a piece of cake between two people. You all know the answer -- one cuts, the other chooses. The beauty is it is fair no matter who does the cutting -- you can exchange the rolls and its still fair. My answer to "is it toture?" is the same -- if these things were done to an American soldier (or civilian) what would our level of outrage be? Then we should have the same level of outrage towards these things being done in our name (as Americans). You'd think the self proclaimed "born again Christians" in this adminstration would understand that without having to be told. Posted by: FredW at September 11, 2006 04:15 AM | Permalink to this comment![]() FredW, the problem is that a lot of americans are applying that measure in reverse. They figure, if the enemy is doing head-chopping, then anything less we do to them doesn't matter. Something like, "Do unto your suspected enemies as your worst enemy has done unto you." There's a certain compulsion to the approach; people who're thinking that way tend to believe it's the only possible approach without giving it a moment's reflection. ![]() Has Waterboarding Been Banned? For years the Bush administration has denied we have secret prisons in other countries. Now Bush himself admits they did. Why would we believe anything they say? Fool me twice? ![]() I was browsing goole and found this http://sexydream.info !! ![]() I saw a segment on Australian TV on the anniversary of 9/11 showing what waterboarding actually looks like and still cannot get this image out of my head. On the same night there was a doco (excellent by the way) called "path to 911" which started with a quote by bin Laden describing American society as "the weakest known to civilization" (sic). Do you realise how the rest of the world perceive you when you apply such brutal unChristian methods as waterboarding. I hereby quote the Dalai Lama in a speech he gave shortly after 9/11: "Many of the world's problems and conflicts arise because we have lost sight of the basic humanity that binds us all together as a human family. We tend to forget that despite the diversity of race, religion, culture, language, ideology and so forth, people are equal in their basic desire for peace and happiness; we all want happiness and do not want suffering. We strive to fulfil these desires as best we can. However as much as we praise diversity in theory, unfortunately often we fail to respect it in practice. In fact, our ability to embrace diversity becomes a major source of conflict among peoples." Posted by: bothered at September 14, 2006 12:59 PM | Permalink to this comment![]() |
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![]() About Belgravia Dispatch
Gregory Djerejian comments intermittently on global politics, finance & diplomacy at this site. The views expressed herein are solely his own and do not represent those of any organization. More About the Author Email the Author Follow @GregDjerejian Recent Entries
Trump’s Foreign Policy: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly
Realistic Appraisal of Russia's Policy Isn't Tantamount to a Putin Apologia Arming Ukraine Would Be Folly Kissinger's "World Order" What Tom Friedman's Interview Revealed About Obama's Foreign Policy Search
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