The Belgravia Dispatch: Mr. Last Throes

October 30, 2006

Mr. Last Throes

A surreal and ultimately disgusting facet of the Iraq fiasco is the lag between when a fact becomes obvious and when the fiasco's architects acknowledge that fact. Iraq's civil war has been raging for more than a year; so has the Washington debate about whether it is what it is.
In a recent interview with Vice President Cheney, Time magazine asked, "If you had to take back any one thing you'd said about Iraq, what would it be?" Selecting from what one hopes is a very long list, Cheney replied: "I thought that the elections that we went through in '05 would have had a bigger impact on the level of violence than they have ... I thought we were over the hump in terms of violence. I think that was premature."

He thinks so? Clearly, and weirdly, he implies that the elections had some positive impact on the level of violence. Worse, in the full transcript of the interview posted online he said the big impact he expected from the elections "hasn't happened yet." "Yet"? Doggedness can be admirable, but this is clinical.

Anyway, what Cheney actually said 17 months ago was that the insurgency was in its "last throes." That was much stronger than saying we were "over the hump" regarding violence. Beware of people who misquote themselves while purporting to display candor.

Indeed. Or as Brent Scowcroft put it so succinctly (and devastatingly): "I consider Cheney a good friend—I’ve known him for thirty years. But Dick Cheney I don’t know anymore.” Historians studying the Bush fils administration will do well to search for clues explicating Cheney's descent from serious policymaker to dissembling denialist.

P.S. Related fare here:

Meantime, Vice President Dick Cheney confirmed that some of the senior al-Qaeda terrorists in our custody have been subjected to "water-boarding," a torture that brings the victim within a hair of drowning and suffocation. Cheney declared that it was a "no-brainer." My thoughts exactly: Only people with no brains opt to torture a captive in violation of domestic and international law.

Posted by Gregory at October 30, 2006 04:18 AM

Comments

y'know, the nearly 3,000 victims of 9/11 would have loved water-boarding as alternative to their ultimate end. do the perpetrators, that is by extension all confirmed enemy combatants, deserve better than their victims?

(we're talking fear and disorientation here, NOT pain or marks, God forbid)

Posted by: neill at October 30, 2006 06:45 AM | Permalink to this comment

"Not pain", Neill? Take a look at http://www.slate.com/id/2152268/nav/tap2/ , then come back and tell me that again.

Posted by: Bruce Moomaw at October 30, 2006 07:17 AM | Permalink to this comment

The serious problem with this administration is that they are dishonest, obsessively avoiding the facts and communicating dishonestly.

Posted by: jerry at October 30, 2006 11:42 AM | Permalink to this comment

Shorter Neil:

Our moral standards should be on a sliding scale, and entirely determined by the moral standards of our enemies.

Who said the Right don't do nuance?

Posted by: Eric Martin at October 30, 2006 05:38 PM | Permalink to this comment

Damn, and there I was taking Neill seriously on the other thread. My mistake.

Everything you need to know about waterboarding.

Posted by: Anderson at October 30, 2006 07:25 PM | Permalink to this comment

Surreal is the right word for describing the Administration's public views regarding Iraq. No other term is adequate to describe the difference between the delusions of Bush, his people & their remaining supporters and the reality of Iraq. Credibility Gap, a term from Vietnam that I am barely old enough to remember, is too mild for the chasm that exists between the Administration's rhetoric and reality. "Last throes", "turned the corner" & "stay the course" have joined "the light at the end of the tunnel" & "Peace in our Time" as historically idiotical & fateously ridiculus phrases. Administration's continued rhetoric that we are making progress in Iraq is so out of touch with reality as to recall Groucho Marx's famous crack in a movie when one of his schemes has been exposed: "Who are you going to believe, me or your eyes?!"

For a look at the grim reality of Iraq go see "Baghdad, a doctor's story" dated Oct. 26th at http:// healingiraq.blogspot.com & also on the same post link to Iraq Kid's beautifully moving tribute to his four friends killed by a roadside bomb shortly before they were to graduate from college. Also see the Iraqi song, "Oh, My Country" at http://www.baghdadtreasure.blogspot.com Please, do not be ashamed to cry.

Posted by: David All at October 30, 2006 10:54 PM | Permalink to this comment

Good one neill... Score cheap points from the dead - real classy.

I wonder how many of those who did lose their lives would instead hope that their lives were not lost in vain. That the American people would not sacrifice the very fabric of freedom and democracy in the pursuit of madmen. That through the darkness they would hold true to the very things that made America a great nation, and ensure that although the need to address terrorism is great, it would be pursued with justice, honesty and integrity and hard work...

Instead you want waterboarding...

Posted by: Aran Brown at October 31, 2006 01:45 AM | Permalink to this comment

Sad Commentary ... Mr. Will has assiduously avoided being for or against the war while it was being ginned up, - rather chimerically so to speak waiting to see how the game ended). William Buckley took the wrong postion and acknowleges the error of the neo-con way, as indeed do the neo-cons themselves, this week in Vanity Fair, though they only blame the "execution" of their scheme.

Another notable conservative pro-war(monger) - William Safire had gone silent of late. But Mr. Will, was not for the war before he is not against it, but is concerned about Cheney's failures to acknowledge mistakes about what he said?

C'Mon, Mr. Will. Conservatives are supposed to be made of sterner stuff.

Posted by: Ray D at November 8, 2006 01:32 AM | Permalink to this comment

	« Rosy Gaddis, Incensed Freeman \| Main \| Brooks on Santorum » October 30, 2006 Mr. Last Throes George Will: A surreal and ultimately disgusting facet of the Iraq fiasco is the lag between when a fact becomes obvious and when the fiasco's architects acknowledge that fact. Iraq's civil war has been raging for more than a year; so has the Washington debate about whether it is what it is. In a recent interview with Vice President Cheney, Time magazine asked, "If you had to take back any one thing you'd said about Iraq, what would it be?" Selecting from what one hopes is a very long list, Cheney replied: "I thought that the elections that we went through in '05 would have had a bigger impact on the level of violence than they have ... I thought we were over the hump in terms of violence. I think that was premature." He thinks so? Clearly, and weirdly, he implies that the elections had some positive impact on the level of violence. Worse, in the full transcript of the interview posted online he said the big impact he expected from the elections "hasn't happened yet." "Yet"? Doggedness can be admirable, but this is clinical. Anyway, what Cheney actually said 17 months ago was that the insurgency was in its "last throes." That was much stronger than saying we were "over the hump" regarding violence. Beware of people who misquote themselves while purporting to display candor. Indeed. Or as Brent Scowcroft put it so succinctly (and devastatingly): "I consider Cheney a good friend—I’ve known him for thirty years. But Dick Cheney I don’t know anymore.” Historians studying the Bush fils administration will do well to search for clues explicating Cheney's descent from serious policymaker to dissembling denialist. P.S. Related fare here: Meantime, Vice President Dick Cheney confirmed that some of the senior al-Qaeda terrorists in our custody have been subjected to "water-boarding," a torture that brings the victim within a hair of drowning and suffocation. Cheney declared that it was a "no-brainer." My thoughts exactly: Only people with no brains opt to torture a captive in violation of domestic and international law. Posted by Gregory at October 30, 2006 04:18 AM Comments y'know, the nearly 3,000 victims of 9/11 would have loved water-boarding as alternative to their ultimate end. do the perpetrators, that is by extension all confirmed enemy combatants, deserve better than their victims? (we're talking fear and disorientation here, NOT pain or marks, God forbid) Posted by: neill at October 30, 2006 06:45 AM \| Permalink to this comment "Not pain", Neill? Take a look at http://www.slate.com/id/2152268/nav/tap2/ , then come back and tell me that again. Posted by: Bruce Moomaw at October 30, 2006 07:17 AM \| Permalink to this comment The serious problem with this administration is that they are dishonest, obsessively avoiding the facts and communicating dishonestly. Posted by: jerry at October 30, 2006 11:42 AM \| Permalink to this comment Shorter Neil: Our moral standards should be on a sliding scale, and entirely determined by the moral standards of our enemies. Who said the Right don't do nuance? Posted by: Eric Martin at October 30, 2006 05:38 PM \| Permalink to this comment Damn, and there I was taking Neill seriously on the other thread. My mistake. Everything you need to know about waterboarding. Posted by: Anderson at October 30, 2006 07:25 PM \| Permalink to this comment Surreal is the right word for describing the Administration's public views regarding Iraq. No other term is adequate to describe the difference between the delusions of Bush, his people & their remaining supporters and the reality of Iraq. Credibility Gap, a term from Vietnam that I am barely old enough to remember, is too mild for the chasm that exists between the Administration's rhetoric and reality. "Last throes", "turned the corner" & "stay the course" have joined "the light at the end of the tunnel" & "Peace in our Time" as historically idiotical & fateously ridiculus phrases. Administration's continued rhetoric that we are making progress in Iraq is so out of touch with reality as to recall Groucho Marx's famous crack in a movie when one of his schemes has been exposed: "Who are you going to believe, me or your eyes?!" For a look at the grim reality of Iraq go see "Baghdad, a doctor's story" dated Oct. 26th at http:// healingiraq.blogspot.com & also on the same post link to Iraq Kid's beautifully moving tribute to his four friends killed by a roadside bomb shortly before they were to graduate from college. Also see the Iraqi song, "Oh, My Country" at http://www.baghdadtreasure.blogspot.com Please, do not be ashamed to cry. Posted by: David All at October 30, 2006 10:54 PM \| Permalink to this comment Good one neill... Score cheap points from the dead - real classy. I wonder how many of those who did lose their lives would instead hope that their lives were not lost in vain. That the American people would not sacrifice the very fabric of freedom and democracy in the pursuit of madmen. That through the darkness they would hold true to the very things that made America a great nation, and ensure that although the need to address terrorism is great, it would be pursued with justice, honesty and integrity and hard work... Instead you want waterboarding... Posted by: Aran Brown at October 31, 2006 01:45 AM \| Permalink to this comment Sad Commentary ... Mr. Will has assiduously avoided being for or against the war while it was being ginned up, - rather chimerically so to speak waiting to see how the game ended). William Buckley took the wrong postion and acknowleges the error of the neo-con way, as indeed do the neo-cons themselves, this week in Vanity Fair, though they only blame the "execution" of their scheme. Another notable conservative pro-war(monger) - William Safire had gone silent of late. But Mr. Will, was not for the war before he is not against it, but is concerned about Cheney's failures to acknowledge mistakes about what he said? C'Mon, Mr. Will. Conservatives are supposed to be made of sterner stuff. Posted by: Ray D at November 8, 2006 01:32 AM \| Permalink to this comment		Reviews of Belgravia Dispatch "Awake" --New York Times "Always-Worth Reading" --Andrew Sullivan "Honorary Chair--American Appeasement Blogs" --Hugh Hewitt Recent Entries McCain: Let's Compound the Blunder! 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